Response to three versions
TheLadyoftheHouse said:
This subject is near and dear to my heart, so allow me to make a few points:
No, there is not a “huge” difference between the three types of Arabic identified here. The difference between Old English and modern English is NOT analogous to the difference between Classical Arabic and MSA/dialects. Dialects are directly derived from the the Classical, just with lazier pronunciation and grammar observance. In fact, if you study dialects, you will often learn words from the Qur’an that are not taught in beginning MSA classes. About half of the Qur’anic vocabularly I personally leaned came to me by way of learning a dialect.
Arabs who “don’t understand you” when you speak MSA to them are most likely uneducated. (By the way, Somalis don’t speak Arabic, they speak Somali, although their language is significantly derived from Arabic, it is not an Arabic dialect but a completely different langauge… I have studied both.) This fact has led many people to believe that there must be huge differences between the dialects and MSA/CA for example. Even highly educated Arabs– we’re talking your doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc., are woefully uneducated in their own language. In fact, many Arabic teachers themselves cannot carry on a conversation in MSA, which they purport to teach! Many of them do not even speak Arabic as their first language in a way because they went to school in languages other than Arabic. Colonialism resulted in the preference for foreign langauges and general social and political unrest sent many educated Arabs overseas. With lower education levels in general the language situation becomes even worse. This is also because Arab countries have, as many Muslim countries have done, over-emphasized math and science achievement and have devalued language, literature, and the arts. Highly intelligent people are generally pushed into the hard sciences, while other fields are seen as “lesser” and are ignored culturally and are often the fields where the less intelligent and creative people end up.
MSA and CA are treated as the same for teaching purposes. In the elementary stages of learning, CA and MSA learning will be identical. There is no significant difference. So I don’t believe these distinctions with respect to teaching are particularly useful. Also, do you deny that classical Arabic had any dialects? Any change? The early grammarians recognized that there were levels of Arabic even at that time, studied them and wrote about them.
Do you propose teaching children Arabic as a Dead Language? Will they learn ONLY words and structures found in the Qur’an or will you allow them to learn words that will enable them to express ideas and concepts meaningful to them so that they may learn the language holistically? Some of what I have read out there proposes not teaching children words like “lemon”, “bus”, or “computer” because they are “not in the Qur’an” yet purports to support getting children “excited” about learning Arabic. I don’t know, do Jewish chidren get “excited” about learnign just enough Hebrew to read the Torah? I haven’t heard any Jewish kids jumping up and down about going to Hebrew school. On top of that, many parts of the Qur’an that utilize highly advanced vocabularly and structures are also so poetically advanced that young children will not be able to appreciate them anyway. Language does not exist merely on paper as something to read and write. Language is meant to be used in human interaction. The “grammar-translation” method of language learning is outdated as most practitioners have recognized that mere memorization and reading do not result in a student really retaining and understanding what they learn. Only when somebody can repeatedly use the language in a meaningful context can they really acquire it and remember it. I don’t believe this is any different if the goal is to understand the Qur’an.
Finally, it is extremely unfair to characterize Classical Arabic as “extremely complex”. It is capable of expressing extremely complex ideas but the language itself is extremely easy to learn and it is a very logical language. The reasons most people have a difficult time learning Arabic include lack of teacher training and the fact that the Arabs themselves who are teaching don’t know their own language well, as I mentioned above. The reasons for difficulties in Islamic schools adds another set of issues that include allocation of funding, time, and attention.
This subject is near and dear to my heart, so allow me to make a few points:
No, there is not a “huge” difference between the three types of Arabic identified here. The difference between Old English and modern English is NOT analogous to the difference between Classical Arabic and MSA/dialects. Dialects are directly derived from the the Classical, just with lazier pronunciation and grammar observance. In fact, if you study dialects, you will often learn words from the Qur’an that are not taught in beginning MSA classes. About half of the Qur’anic vocabularly I personally leaned came to me by way of learning a dialect.
Arabs who “don’t understand you” when you speak MSA to them are most likely uneducated. (By the way, Somalis don’t speak Arabic, they speak Somali, although their language is significantly derived from Arabic, it is not an Arabic dialect but a completely different langauge… I have studied both.) This fact has led many people to believe that there must be huge differences between the dialects and MSA/CA for example. Even highly educated Arabs– we’re talking your doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc., are woefully uneducated in their own language. In fact, many Arabic teachers themselves cannot carry on a conversation in MSA, which they purport to teach! Many of them do not even speak Arabic as their first language in a way because they went to school in languages other than Arabic. Colonialism resulted in the preference for foreign langauges and general social and political unrest sent many educated Arabs overseas. With lower education levels in general the language situation becomes even worse. This is also because Arab countries have, as many Muslim countries have done, over-emphasized math and science achievement and have devalued language, literature, and the arts. Highly intelligent people are generally pushed into the hard sciences, while other fields are seen as “lesser” and are ignored culturally and are often the fields where the less intelligent and creative people end up.
MSA and CA are treated as the same for teaching purposes. In the elementary stages of learning, CA and MSA learning will be identical. There is no significant difference. So I don’t believe these distinctions with respect to teaching are particularly useful. Also, do you deny that classical Arabic had any dialects? Any change? The early grammarians recognized that there were levels of Arabic even at that time, studied them and wrote about them.
Do you propose teaching children Arabic as a Dead Language? Will they learn ONLY words and structures found in the Qur’an or will you allow them to learn words that will enable them to express ideas and concepts meaningful to them so that they may learn the language holistically? Some of what I have read out there proposes not teaching children words like “lemon”, “bus”, or “computer” because they are “not in the Qur’an” yet purports to support getting children “excited” about learning Arabic. I don’t know, do Jewish chidren get “excited” about learnign just enough Hebrew to read the Torah? I haven’t heard any Jewish kids jumping up and down about going to Hebrew school. On top of that, many parts of the Qur’an that utilize highly advanced vocabularly and structures are also so poetically advanced that young children will not be able to appreciate them anyway. Language does not exist merely on paper as something to read and write. Language is meant to be used in human interaction. The “grammar-translation” method of language learning is outdated as most practitioners have recognized that mere memorization and reading do not result in a student really retaining and understanding what they learn. Only when somebody can repeatedly use the language in a meaningful context can they really acquire it and remember it. I don’t believe this is any different if the goal is to understand the Qur’an.
Finally, it is extremely unfair to characterize Classical Arabic as “extremely complex”. It is capable of expressing extremely complex ideas but the language itself is extremely easy to learn and it is a very logical language. The reasons most people have a difficult time learning Arabic include lack of teacher training and the fact that the Arabs themselves who are teaching don’t know their own language well, as I mentioned above. The reasons for difficulties in Islamic schools adds another set of issues that include allocation of funding, time, and attention.
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